I am trying to figure out how to copy my programs from datacassette to a PC format for distribution over the net.
Let's say I start with a tape and record it to wave file... what should I consider? What is the frequency range of the tape format? How far can I take compression without data loss? A 2 minute wave file is quite big in memory considering it only translates to a 3k program.
Any suggestions on how to do this (make a sound file without data comprimise) and make it more efficient for putting my programs on the net (memory size)?
Copy programs from Tape to PC
I'd say that .tap, .t64 or .prg files would be your best options. There are tools around for making .tap files out of wave files. If we're talking regular one file programs without any custom loaders or anything, and you have access to a 1541 drive, PC and X(E)1541 cable, you have what I consider to be the optimal options:
Load the programs from tape, save them to disk and then transfer them to the PC as .prg files using the X(E)1541 cable and Star Commander.
or
Load the programs from tape and then save them directly to the PC as .prg files using the X(E)1541 cable and 64HDD.
The .prg files can then be converted to .tap or .t64 files if you wish, or you can leave them as .prg files, which is the format I prefer since it gives me the least hassle when transferring them back to my VIC.
You already have an X1541 cable, right? If you can't use it with your new PC it's simple to convert it to an XE1541 cable. There are instructions on Joe Forster's homepage (http://sta.c64.org). I managed to build an XE1541 a few years ago without any fancy equipment and even without any previous soldering experience. The key is to don't rush it, and test every conection with a multimeter to make sure there are no solder bridges or bad solder joints (and to make sure you've made the right connections!).
Both Star Commander and 64HDD are pretty easy to set up (provided you RTFM), and if you run into problems, the authors are friendly and always ready to help you out. This is especially true of Nick Coplin (64HDD), even if you only use the freeware version.
Load the programs from tape, save them to disk and then transfer them to the PC as .prg files using the X(E)1541 cable and Star Commander.
or
Load the programs from tape and then save them directly to the PC as .prg files using the X(E)1541 cable and 64HDD.
The .prg files can then be converted to .tap or .t64 files if you wish, or you can leave them as .prg files, which is the format I prefer since it gives me the least hassle when transferring them back to my VIC.
You already have an X1541 cable, right? If you can't use it with your new PC it's simple to convert it to an XE1541 cable. There are instructions on Joe Forster's homepage (http://sta.c64.org). I managed to build an XE1541 a few years ago without any fancy equipment and even without any previous soldering experience. The key is to don't rush it, and test every conection with a multimeter to make sure there are no solder bridges or bad solder joints (and to make sure you've made the right connections!).
Both Star Commander and 64HDD are pretty easy to set up (provided you RTFM), and if you run into problems, the authors are friendly and always ready to help you out. This is especially true of Nick Coplin (64HDD), even if you only use the freeware version.
Bacon
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Das rubbernecken Sichtseeren keepen das cotton-pickenen Hands in die Pockets muss; relaxen und watschen die Blinkenlichten.
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Das rubbernecken Sichtseeren keepen das cotton-pickenen Hands in die Pockets muss; relaxen und watschen die Blinkenlichten.
The program to convert from WAV to TAP is called tape64:
http://www.ftp.funet.fi/pub/cbm/crosspl ... index.html
although you need a modified version to successfully convert a VIC-20 pulse into a TAP - at least I did when trying it. I sent a note to Andreas Matthies, but he seemed to ignore me. Maybe because the program is a few years old. I'm not sure how much you can compress the sound file, but if you record a 8 bit, 11 kHz mono stream from your tape, it should be sufficient for conversion.
There is also one called TAPir, which I haven't tried but does the same job and also claims to do VIC-20.
Otherwise, I second the X-cable/disk solution. Another idea is to get mtap and the corresponding cable to connect your Datasettte directly to the PC and not go through a WAV file, but it requires yet another custom cable to be made or bought.
http://www.ftp.funet.fi/pub/cbm/crosspl ... index.html
although you need a modified version to successfully convert a VIC-20 pulse into a TAP - at least I did when trying it. I sent a note to Andreas Matthies, but he seemed to ignore me. Maybe because the program is a few years old. I'm not sure how much you can compress the sound file, but if you record a 8 bit, 11 kHz mono stream from your tape, it should be sufficient for conversion.
There is also one called TAPir, which I haven't tried but does the same job and also claims to do VIC-20.
Otherwise, I second the X-cable/disk solution. Another idea is to get mtap and the corresponding cable to connect your Datasettte directly to the PC and not go through a WAV file, but it requires yet another custom cable to be made or bought.
Anders Carlsson
After reading a the other related topics, I'd like to add this info: I have a 200MHz Pentium Pro (Dell OptiplexGXPro) with Windows 98 which I use only as a fileserver for my 8-bitters, and I can run StarCommander under Windows virtually without problems (the program hangs once in a while though, but nothing serious). I boot it in DOS mode to run 64HDD; no problems there either, and when I run StarCommander under DOS it never hangs.
If you don't have Windows 98 or 95, you can still make a boot disk from within Windows Me, 2000 and XP and use that to boot into DOS.
Oh, and don't believe the 64HDD manual when it says that you can't use Windows 98's FAT32 filesystem. You can. I think Nick has confused FAT32 with NTFS.
If you don't have Windows 98 or 95, you can still make a boot disk from within Windows Me, 2000 and XP and use that to boot into DOS.
Oh, and don't believe the 64HDD manual when it says that you can't use Windows 98's FAT32 filesystem. You can. I think Nick has confused FAT32 with NTFS.
Bacon
-------------------------------------------------------
Das rubbernecken Sichtseeren keepen das cotton-pickenen Hands in die Pockets muss; relaxen und watschen die Blinkenlichten.
-------------------------------------------------------
Das rubbernecken Sichtseeren keepen das cotton-pickenen Hands in die Pockets muss; relaxen und watschen die Blinkenlichten.
Listen to a VIC tape through stereo headphones and try to determine any stereo effect. 
I know some other home computers only used one channel (left or right) and left the other one empty for personal use, but I can't recall off my head if the Datasette duplicates the signal on both channels.
Somehow, sampling in a lower frequency range to get a smaller file seems more safe than getting a large, crisp sound where you afterwards apply lossy compression to take away the musically less important sounds. Or try both and see what gets the best result.
I know some other home computers only used one channel (left or right) and left the other one empty for personal use, but I can't recall off my head if the Datasette duplicates the signal on both channels. Somehow, sampling in a lower frequency range to get a smaller file seems more safe than getting a large, crisp sound where you afterwards apply lossy compression to take away the musically less important sounds. Or try both and see what gets the best result.
Anders Carlsson
HELP! I recorded my tape file of the 20 line game ( using my stereo directly without any EQ modification) to the PC.
When I recorded the WAV file back to the stero, it no longer worked on my datacassette. Here is the file. Can anyone explain what I am doing wrong? Unless I can figure out the xe1541, this is my only way to get files to the PC.
Here is a link to the wav file.
http://sleepingelephant.com/denial/egg.wav
If you have time, can someone try to record it to tape and play it one a datacassette. Better yet, if someone has access to TAP2WAV for the VIC, it would be interesting to see if that is possible. I only know of the 64 version.
When I recorded the WAV file back to the stero, it no longer worked on my datacassette. Here is the file. Can anyone explain what I am doing wrong? Unless I can figure out the xe1541, this is my only way to get files to the PC.
Here is a link to the wav file.
http://sleepingelephant.com/denial/egg.wav
If you have time, can someone try to record it to tape and play it one a datacassette. Better yet, if someone has access to TAP2WAV for the VIC, it would be interesting to see if that is possible. I only know of the 64 version.
Jeff, All Commodore datasettes are running at a specific speed. Normal tape decks for audio are NOT calibrated that way and varies A LOT in speed from unit to unit. Take any tape and play it in one casette player. Listen carefully. Take it to another casette player. The music will have a different pitch. This is one problem. If you put your data tape in any ordinary tape deck to record it to a wav file, and then someone at the other end to record the wav file to another uncalibrated tape deck... Well, there can only be one result - load error...
Another problem is that the datasette records at an increadable volume. Very loud. It probably needs to be recorded back at a similar level.
I think your best option is to try again with your cable, or to buy another type of cable that works with your computer...
Btw, I don't think I can read .tap files here.... I only have a quite bad vic emulator on the amiga and I don't think it can read .tap.... I think....? I don't have a working PC....
Normal files (".prg") and .D64 are the only two formats I know I can read....
/Anders
Another problem is that the datasette records at an increadable volume. Very loud. It probably needs to be recorded back at a similar level.
I think your best option is to try again with your cable, or to buy another type of cable that works with your computer...
Btw, I don't think I can read .tap files here.... I only have a quite bad vic emulator on the amiga and I don't think it can read .tap.... I think....? I don't have a working PC....
Normal files (".prg") and .D64 are the only two formats I know I can read....
/Anders
Jeff, does your PC have some very odd manufacturer (e.g. ALi) of the motherboard chipset? From what I can read on the X*1541 and Star Commander pages, the XE1541 is supposed to work with most recent computers even up to Windows XP (after applying some patches to the OS). Unfortunately, I still haven't got my ass off my chair to go to the electronics shop and pick up the parts I need to build my own transfer cable, so I can't tell how well it works neither on Athlon-class computers nor NT-class operating systems.
Anders Carlsson
I wouldn't even know where to begin with that project. I am not very good with electronics on that level. The most I've done is soldering on my arcade machine.
I just downloaded VICE and decided to type the program in for now (it's only 20 lines... a quick solution).
Now I am such an idiot that I can't figure out VICE!
I create and attach disk images, and tape images, but I cannot figure out how to save. When I type in a name:
SAVE"GAME",8
I get a graphic result. It pauses and appears to be saving...
SAVING "{insert CMD graphics}"
READY.
But when I return to that image, I see the graphic name and a splat file. I really need to figure this out.
I just downloaded VICE and decided to type the program in for now (it's only 20 lines... a quick solution).
Now I am such an idiot that I can't figure out VICE!
I create and attach disk images, and tape images, but I cannot figure out how to save. When I type in a name:
SAVE"GAME",8
I get a graphic result. It pauses and appears to be saving...
SAVING "{insert CMD graphics}"
READY.
But when I return to that image, I see the graphic name and a splat file. I really need to figure this out.
Ok here's a better idea.
Get one of those CD to casette adaptors, it looks like a regular casette but with a stereo jack lead comming out of one corner. Put that in the datacasette and plug that into the sound card input.
That should give you something plugged into either the line in (if you have it) or the mic in.
Cheers,
Lee.
Get one of those CD to casette adaptors, it looks like a regular casette but with a stereo jack lead comming out of one corner. Put that in the datacasette and plug that into the sound card input.
That should give you something plugged into either the line in (if you have it) or the mic in.
Cheers,
Lee.